MU Podcast 056 - Boundaries and the Sire of Serpents

[Dr. Gerard]

Stay away from Binger!

[Scriven]

I appreciated the "on-air" discussion about boundaries, guys. I don't consider myself a prude when it comes to horror in horror gaming, so I hope my initial query didn't come off that way. For that matter, I sincerely hope that's never been the impression I've given to those on these forums with whom I've had the good fortune to play. There's a reason why we gravitate toward a game that explores some very dark territory, but I don't think it's on account of a prurient interest in violence in cruelty. These are functions of the stories we tell as players and Keepers -- means to a narrative end, not the end in themselves.

It would be odd to play a horror game and expect not to be made to feel uncomfortable from time to time. I think that even strong subject matter can be leveraged effectively and legitimately. Some very good strategies for this were raised during the Keepers' discussion. That said, I prefer a game where such subject matter, when introduced, is not trivialized, but invokes at least some acknowledgement of pathos and a sense of tragedy. That's not always easy to achieve. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've been involved as an investigator in a play-by-post CoC game a few years ago that was essentially littered with the bodies of innocents, and at each grisly discovery our collective sense of urgency, frustration and sorrow multiplied until the game reached a pitch of horror and pathos that I have yet to see equaled. It can be done, and done artistically and with great maturity. I often wish I could track down that Keeper -- he "disappeared" rather oddly and unexpectedly -- and congratulate him on that accomplishment.

Anyway, thanks for giving the question a fair hearing. Frankly, I was quite surprised to hear it end up as part of an actual episode, but was glad to hear it prompt a balanced, well-considered discussion. I'll be happy to hear other opinions and insights in the actual discussion thread where the question was first posted. http://mu-podcast.com/campus/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=603

[etopp]

Good episode, the 'boundaries' talk caused me to remember the first game I ever played of Call of Cthulhu. The group was being run through "The Warren", and we came upon what the Keeper described as a 'rat-thing' playing with a 'doll', then he had everyone make Idea rolls to realize what it really was...

+1
I think scaling back the gore in CoC is the best way to build the horror especially when dealing with "edgy" material. Something like an abandoned doll or blood-stained pyjamas can set the scene and also gauge players' reactions to see if you as the Keeper have gone too far.

[cjearkham]

The quote Chad read about Byatis was not by 17-year-old Robert Bloch but by 16-year-old Ramsey Campbell, from "The Room in the Tower". All Bloch ever had said about Byatis, in "The Shambler from the Stars", or elsewhere, was "I recall allusions to such gods of divination as Father Yig, dark Han, and serpent-bearded Byatis".

Bloch actually did use crayons -- for some drawings of Mythos creatures, which he sent to Lovecraft and which are now part of the John Hay library collection, where I once saw them on display.

[Dr. Gerard]

I appreciated the "on-air" discussion about boundaries, guys. I don't consider myself a prude when it comes to horror in horror gaming, so I hope my initial query didn't come off that way. For that matter, I sincerely hope that's never been the impression I've given to those on these forums with whom I've had the good fortune to play. There's a reason why we gravitate toward a game that explores some very dark territory, but I don't think it's on account of a prurient interest in violence in cruelty. These are functions of the stories we tell as players and Keepers -- means to a narrative end, not the end in themselves.

It would be odd to play a horror game and expect not to be made to feel uncomfortable from time to time. I think that even strong subject matter can be leveraged effectively and legitimately. Some very good strategies for this were raised during the Keepers' discussion. That said, I prefer a game where such subject matter, when introduced, is not trivialized, but invokes at least some acknowledgement of pathos and a sense of tragedy. That's not always easy to achieve. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've been involved as an investigator in a play-by-post CoC game a few years ago that was essentially littered with the bodies of innocents, and at each grisly discovery our collective sense of urgency, frustration and sorrow multiplied until the game reached a pitch of horror and pathos that I have yet to see equaled. It can be done, and done artistically and with great maturity. I often wish I could track down that Keeper -- he "disappeared" rather oddly and unexpectedly -- and congratulate him on that accomplishment.

Anyway, thanks for giving the question a fair hearing. Frankly, I was quite surprised to hear it end up as part of an actual episode, but was glad to hear it prompt a balanced, well-considered discussion. I'll be happy to hear other opinions and insights in the actual discussion thread where the question was first posted. http://mu-podcast.com/campus/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=603

Again, thank you for sticking your neck out about this issue. I don't think any of us took your comments as cause to tippy-toe around you. It takes some huevos to talk about this stuff, especially in a subculture (horror gamers) that embraces the pushing of limits, and encourages dark exploration. We didn't check with you about using the forum post as a topic, so I hope you don't feel chafed. In retrospect, it might have been better to give you a heads up.

What you said about trivialization strikes a chord in me. That's also how I draw lines. A scenario that addresses a taboo or sensitive topic, even one that pushes my particular buttons, can pique my interest if I feel it's done with some depth of thought. It's all about context, and not at all simple to define. I played a game at 1D4Con that was very much about violence against women, centered around a story of witch-burning, that I found to be cathartic and valuable. But your standard Law & Order murder mystery that opens with a mutilated supermodel -- I find that to be unoriginal and frivolously misogynistic.

And don't get me wrong, I'm also prone to re-watch all the 70s-80s slasher films that I grew up with, which seem to hate boobs and include disturbing gems like the tree-rape scene in Evil Dead. Sometimes I think about the shades of meaning, and sometimes a movie is just a movie. But I guess in RPGs, because the games don't allow for much distance, I tend to think it through a little more.

[Shannon Mac]

The link for Jon Hook's "Lock In" doesn't work as an FYI. More later from me in another post. Thanks and another great show.